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See "I’m a socialist and a Jeremy Corbyn supporter, and I voted for Brexit" which usefully summarises much of my thinking.

Read more at:

Thanks for the link, but I deny to read the article. It's not worth to do that, as only bullshit is written there.
It's clear even without reading the bullshit, just by the headline.
Just because of the fashion-word "neo-liberal".
When you see any kind of text with "neo-liberal", you immediately know, that's all bullshit in there.
Because everyone, who uses this fashion-word is an idiot, who didn't knoe the meaning of it.
See "I’m a socialist and a Jeremy Corbyn supporter, and I voted for Brexit" which usefully summarises much of my thinking.

Read more at:
@dsl: well, a warning sign may be not too bad - but to muller yourself into the (shit)hole, as the Brits have done with their Brexit-bullshit is annother thing.

The rest of Europe -mee, too- is still perplexed about the naivety of the Brexiteers, and about their big eyes and helplessness about the upcoming problems and disasters, as the inner-Irish border, the non-existing IT-programme for the customs controls, the social insurance of the British citizens, living in the EU (My wife and me are still wondering, why the BBC still aires "A place in the sun") and even travelling with pets.

Last weekend, on a short trip to Scotland
Not the best clip, but filmed from our position, I may be visible, too)
we felt this narrow-mindness again: because GB is and was never in the Schengen-Zone, there was a passport-control at the airports - those on the way back to Weeze (a former Royal Air Force airfield at the Dutch border) has cost us half an hour!

For non-Middle-Europeans: we here are used to travel unstopped and unmolested across the whole continent (except to obscure banana republics as the Kosovo, Republica Srpska, Switzerland and Great Britain)!
The chavvy blokes, coming from Mallorca could go directly to their luggage, but we had to stand around as idiots!

In Scotland I was surprised to spot within a few hours a Dennis Tipper (on a construction area at the Edinburgh Airport), a Triumph 2000 and even Rootes-crap, a Sunbeam Alpine (both in Linlithgow).
My thought was:
"There will be Brexiteer-morons, who will think, that the upcoming Brexit is responsible for that increasing classic Britishness".

Btw.: I thought to become a candidate for the European election next year. But I cannot join the German party congress of my party - because I plan to go to Beaulieu on that weekend.
The Brexiteers still haven't realised, that all their thoughts and opinions are fully based on lies.

You're wrong. There were a lot of false claims made by both Brexiteers and Remainers during the referendum campaign, but they were not the reasons I voted Brexit.

I voted Brexit because the EU has gone bad. It has become a power-grabbing structure focussed on getting more and more control over its member countries and preventing those countries being able to steer themselves. If you're an economically strong country, EU membership is probably a good thing (eg France, Germany, Scandinavia, Benelux) but if you're a weaker country (Greece, Ireland, Italy) you get forced into tighter economic constraints with no control or prospect of real improvement. Basically it's capitalist bullying by the big guys of the weaker economies. Greece's economy particularly has been suffocated into a near-coma instead of being helped.

I'd be happy to stay part of a benevolent and progressive EU which allowed its members to control their destinies according to their needs and helped each of them to flourish, but that's not the EU which is on offer.

UK still needs a good relationship with Europe - probably based on free trade - and while I'd accept that our Brexit negotiating tactics have been stupidly inept, it is also clear that EU negotiators don't want us to have a good post-Brexit relationship. All they do is tell us what we can't have - there's been nothing positive about what we could have or how the practicalities could be usefully solved for a friendly Brexit which works for both sides.

The British vote and some other countries having strong anti-EU movements should send a warning message to the EU power brokers that they've got things wrong and need to seriously adjust direction, but there's no sign that they're prepared to listen. And that for me is the underlying reason I want out - the product is not what it claims to be.
For fueling the discussion:

Quote From: the sad biker

The pro-EU press and commentators love to paint us Brexiteers as uneducated racist xenophobes who hate Europe...

Yes. This is the problem.

Not just at the Brexit-vote, also at any kind of other votes and elections, this is the problem: the muggins.

It may sounds like snobbery (I'm an active supporter of it), but the voting rights should be connected with a miimum IQ-standard and a basic knowledge about politics and economy.

The Brexiteers still haven't realised, that all their thoughts and opinions are fully based on lies.

Plus their loss of reality - they didn't have thought about the big problem with the inner-Irish borderline, they ignore all, absolutely all interrelations inside the modern Europe, not only the economical ones.

Let's see, what a disaster we -mainly the British- will have soon.

:grin: I'm thinking about a visit in Britain around the 29.3.2019
The actual statement and remarks of the politicians -the British ones!!- already give us foreign visitors the foreboding of a feeling like we had back then in the DDR or actually in Northkorea:
be prepared with cash money in real currencies, food rations, beverages, a full tank of gas and a half packet of cigarettes and sunglasses.

P.S. The best point of this unique DDR/Northkorea-feeling was the certainty:
"I can get out here without any problem"
o.k., here the direct quotations of the link above:

A fine trip through the last days of British commercial vehicle dominance :king:
My council now runs Mercedes Bin Wagons, MAN Tippers and a Peugeot / Citroen van fleet :sad:
Of course once Juncker closes the channel ports plans are in hand to buy Macks, Hinos and Toyotas :smile:

or maybe they go with cheap chinese crap ?

Maybe , but I remember when 'Made in Japan' meant rubbish but they got a lot better !

Quote From: johnfromstaffs
Our council don’t do bins at all these days. The entire thing is outsourced to Veolia.

Quote From: the sad biker

Don't hold your breath.

Quote From: the sad biker

Under EU reg's, contracts/tenders above £250K must be advertised in the European journal, your council probably couldn't have bought British even if they wanted to :mad:

Ah but freedom is coming !

Despite the bizarre idea, that Juncker is the culprit, no, this wont happen.
The Japanese (who are really pissed, for example Mr.Ghosn and the Hondas) already have said, that they are not interested in a special relationship with the Post-Brexit-Britain.

What British they shall have bought? There's nothing British left.

Quote From: chicomarx
Juncker high in Brussels following a NATO reception...
Right on the other side of these arches is the Autoworld collection.
Mrs May seems to have wasted the opportunity for special partnerships, Mr Trump clearly indicated he wanted that.

How did this comment section turn into a conversation about Donald Trump? :lol:

Not really, the discussion is about the Brexit -and so on relation to the movie title-, Trump is not the main person here.
Actually in Europe the most discussions about politics became totally paranoical, as there are always grotesque references to D.T.

She never had this opportunity and wont have it in the future.
There's no country on the world -incl.the USA- which has said, that there is an interest having a special partnership with the Brexit-GB. None.

We don't need one, we will just trade along ( China seems to manage to trade billions with the EU without being in it ) and no doubt their will be a few panics and a temporary downturn but so what , a price worth paying to be an independent democratic nation IMHO.
In a few years time we will wonder what all the fuss was about.

@JCB: well, we will see it.
My opinion is annother one. For that I'm planning a pre-Brexit-vulture-trip, for example to Beaulieu in four weeks.

P.S. at my several Scotland-trips (my wife and me are Scotland-freaks. If the Brexit wont have come, we would have emigrated to Argyll and Bute) I've always looked for origin GB-vehicles and tried to make photos for the IMCDb-forum.
At the last trips I didn't found anything except a few Dennis garbage trucks.
Why? Because of EU and Merkel?

No, it was problems with unions , problems with management and problems with government, a perfect storm which led to outdated poorly built products.

It's independent government I desire not being part of a federal superstate where rules for British people are decided by an undemocratic assembly of 27 nations.Some people are OK with that so fair enough but it's not for the majority of UK people.

Additionally I think our government was very stupid to allow foreign companies to take over most of the British commercial vehicle makers and close them down.
UK governments of all colours seems to want to give big government contracts to foreign companies in a way that would not happen in France or Germany.

Quote From: chicomarx

No, ironically it's the US (only the world's largest consumer market) that openly talks about a free trade deal with the UK, the problem is Mrs May is secretly pro-EU.

Quote From: the sad biker
What secret?

where is night cub to complain about political talks on imcdb ?

Quote From: night cub

I'm staying out of this one. There are other admins involved to oversee this.

There's no reason for complaining, as these topics, which you could also find in this series (although it's 20 years old), as economical future and the automotive industry, are in direct coherence with the EU and the Brexit.

@JCB: your argumentation is not logical.
The total disapperance of the British automotive industry was the result of inner-British decisions and politics - the EU or other foreigners have nothing to do with that.
What can/shall an "independent" British post-Brexit government change about this?
Not to forget the topic, that there aren't any capable economy-politicians available.
Wasn't there recently a ministerial moron, who said "fuck economy"? :whistle:

And about economy and industry there is no "independance" anywhere in the world. Not even on Northkorea.
Besides the fact, that this "independance" never had existed. Not in the times, when Britannia ruled the waves and a big part of the world, not in the pre-industrialisation times, not in the Middle Age or at the times of the Romans, and not even in the Bronze-Age.

P.S. what would have happened, if the foreigners wouldn't have taken over the British automotive industry?
Then there would be everything gone. Nothing would have been left over.
You should know, that it never had worked, when government and politicians try to ride dead economical horses.
That costs billions of money, causes wrong hopes to the people, but at the end of the day the collapse will come anyway. Mostly harder and more bitter than it would have been with an earlier death.

Quote From: chicomarx
Brexit wasn't about economic independence, they voted for the common market in 1975, it's rejecting what the EU project has become, regaining political independence, sovereignty over borders.

Agreed - chico and I on the same page :smile: !!!!. We've ended up with a bad EU which spends far too much effort in ensuring it has full control instead of being responsive to its member countries. I'd be happy to stay in a better EU which supported its members and allowed them to breathe. Brexit will probably be a train crash, but staying in would be a bigger and more drawn out train crash for the UK.

Quote From: the sad biker

Yes it was about economic independance, we voted to remain in the EEC in 1975, a trading alliance with Europe, this has morphed into the EU, a European government which has designs on total economic & social control of the populace, no-one had the decency to ask us if this is what we wanted until the more recent referendum, the EU just assumed power.

The prevailing establishment lied to us in 1975 about the purpose of the European movement and they're withholding a large part of the truth from you now, ever closer integration means precisely that, an eventual European government in Brussels, run by unelected bureaucrats, leaving national governments irrelevent.

The pro-EU press and commentators love to paint us Brexiteers as uneducated racist xenophobes who hate Europe, far from it, we don't hate Europe, it's full of wonderful people being led up the garden path by the EU which we do hate, a corrupt, anti-democratic racket.

We're attempting to break free, despite the best efforts of the BBC, just about every celebrity, journalist, TV presenter and stand-up comedian and our own Prime Minister, the sooner we can get shot of that smug tw*t Juncker, and all he represents, the better.

Quote From: Nightrider

you all talk like if you have your supposed economic and political independence anything would really change in your lifes ...

you would still be left with same politician and economic elites who lie, deceive and fook with your minds and wallet all the time like currently

mos people would still have a shitty life in wage slavery working 40 + hours a week to make some rich douchebags even richer while you still relative poor and so on , currently you are actually TAXED if you work !!! don't you all realize how INSANE this is if you think about it ????? yet nobody even mentions such things of the current system

if you want to rise up brexit is not the answer but the whole economic system as whole which will remain in place

why don't you all get out and protest, let's say ONLY 20 hours per week work with same payment for example or just flat out promote full automatization and guaranteed income so there would be no need to work in the first place

if there are shitty jobs that humans need to do just put convicts to do them, rotting in jail is bad economy for the state and for them too or use the qatari model and use foreign workers for that

Ingo - I do not blame the EU at all for the demise of the British Commercial Vehicle industry.
You asked if I blamed the EU and I said -
'No, it was problems with unions , problems with management and problems with government, a perfect storm which led to outdated poorly built products.'

Quote From: the sad biker
Because economic & social policy would be decided by our politicians who are supposed to act in British national interest, who we can get rid of if we don't like them, elections are held at a maximum af 5 years.
I don't remember ever seeing a ballot paper with a European commissioners name written on it? A commissioner who will only ever act in the best interests of the EU commission (or their own personal interest), not yours or mine.

The problem is that if the best we can do is May or Corbyn it would be preferable to be run by another country.

look your local political elite don't give a shit about you really , they just pretend , all they care is what their economic masters dictate it's only an ILUSION that you can actually really decide something , after brexit things wil be more or less business as usual maybe in slightly altered facade but that's it

and again why don't you protest against the 40+ hour work week ? don't you all want only 20 or less ?? real things for the average citizen
or say laws that dictate the minimum warrenty for electronic and hosuehold products and cars should be minimum 10 years !!!! so you don't have to waste money changing things so often

Maybe Trump has some spare time :smile:

Quote From: the sad biker
We should dig up Maggie and inject some monkey glands (there's always hope?) Hate the woman as much as you like but we need her strength of character and belief right now, her & The Donald would have got along just fine :lol:
The last thing we need at the moment is Mrs Spineless or a Trotskyite lunatic.

I remember what a state UK was in before Maggie :king:

I remember what a state UK was in during Maggie. And afterwards. Whatever pre-Maggie UK needed or deserved, it wasn't her.

As they say - get a room! Or in this case, why don't you continue on the forum pages?

I would support a playpen/rubber room for political topics in the forum.
If there aren't serious and comprehensible reasons against it, let's go there!
P.S. to come back to topic here, let's replace the question, related to the series above, which has caused the whole discussion:
Will there every be a political/economical or just comprehensible chance to get back something like an origin British automotive industry?
My two Pence: definitely not with the Brexit.

Done: #p72695

I'll try to copy and paste the comments from here, but I need my PC for that, as not possible for me with the smartphone.

Quote From: chicomarx
Just to remind Mr sadbiker: Maggie was FOR the single market, one of several key points where she disappointed her mentor Enoch Powell. The EU was really kicked into higher gear in the 1980s by people like François Mitterand who from a socialist standpoint thought “Le nationalisme, c'est la guerre”. The common market is not the problem, the common currency, uncontrollable migration and expanding bureaucracy will break up the EU.

@tore-40/nightcub you can go off-topic once in a while provided it's cleaned up later... that's always been the rule. dsl may decide here.

Will do in a day or two when either it's run out of steam or it's jumped to ingo's forum page.

Quote From: night cub

Again, staying out of it, but generally politics lead to arguments that are way off-topic.

We might have to :smile:

or pointless

OK It's not the place for politics but it was interesting how much everyone's thought about the EU were similar.
I thought this would happen :lol:
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