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DAF555
To keep the argument in one place, this is from the site: http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle.php?id=378718
I´m not sure I get you right here, but I´m not suggesting that bodystyles will have to be put in the "Model" field in every case as you seems to be implying.
Maybe the word "Model" in itself is part of the problem here since it can refer to either the chassis, the bodystyle or a car line.
But when it comes following "Make" in a database like IMCDb I think it´s mostly understood as a combination resulting in the commercial name of the vehicle.
We can use the 1929 Lincoln above as an example, it could be entered as:
Make: Lincoln
Model: Model L (code referring to the chassis) or Model 164-B (code referring to the bodystyle)
It will not result in much of a commercial name though, and if we take a 1934 Cadillac as example:
Make: Cadillac
Model: Series 355-D (code referring to engine displacement) or Series 20 (code referring to chassis length) or Style 34662 (code referring to the bodytype)
Both these examples would have been a bit hard to digest if you see them from the viewpoint of the customers back then.
Towards customers Lincoln promoted their car as Sport Touring, no reference made to engine or chassis.
Cadillac called their car Cadillac V-8 Series 20 Sedan towards customers. In this case Series 20 is used as a marker for the chassis length 136", but it´s put as secondary information in the material I´ve seen so far. And would fit nicely in the "Extra Info" field of this site.
The style 662 (34 is just a reference to the year) referred to the 7-Passenger version, with dividing glass 663 (called Imperial Sedan), with 5 seats it was 659. If I´m not mistaken all three of them looked the same from the outside, so with a distant filmclip it might be hard to decide exactly which one to use.
If we look over several years how manufacturers promote their vehicles, it´s possible to see patterns of how it´s done.
Manufacturers always have kept close eyes with what´s going on at the competion, and they tend to use designations that are similar. In the early days when the engineers and founders often were the same person, we´re likely to find an engineering code promoted in the sense of modelname. Roughly this is done and over with about 1915, after that we´re more likely find the engine or bodystyle promoted in the sense of modelname. Codes often still appear in publishings after this, but when looking closely at them I think they mostly can be understood as just codes.
The majority will have a reference in some sort to the engine, either the type, horsepower (taxed or real) or in a combinantion with a name describing the excellence of it.
Often, during the following years (approximately 1915-35) when a manufacturer only have one carline in production they use bodystyle in the sense of modelname, but when they come to use several engines in their chassis they usually lift this fact in the promotion.
Dedicated modelnames appear alongside with this practise, Jordan was one of the pioneers in giving their cars names that would be connected only to that make. Most known is the Playboy, they had also the Blue Boy and the Little Tomboy. But as a general use, it does not become common until the second half of the thirties among most manufacturers.
Later in the period the practise of using De Luxe in the sense of modelname becomes common, roughly 1930-50.
What´s most common during these years differs between the manufacturers, it comes and goes and sometimes reappers. They try different strategys, and when production started after WWII we can find all of the above given examples used over time. It differs a bit over the years what´s most common practise, it might be long creative names (common on US-cars), or a simple reference to engine size (common on euro markets) or something looking like codes that´s become popular in later years: Audi A6, Mercedes-Benz A150, Volvo S80, Citroën C4, Cadillac STS or whatever it might be.
Generally we can see similarities of how it´s done between the different automakers. There´s always a tendency to follow the leader.
When looking at a vehicle, there are two general ways to approach it. The engineering side of it, and the commercial.
On the engineering side we find all sorts of codes, used when developing it and later used to keep track of exactly what model we´re talking about. Both internally, in the service departments, and eventual car clubs for the nerds of a specific brand or specific model.
Here everything also follow the calendar year in exactness.
On the other hand we have the commercial side, where names (both make and model) may differ from market to market. Here we also find the practise of modelyears that often differ from the calendar year, sometimes in spectacular way.
Both these ways are correct in their perspective, and have useful information to provide for a site like IMCDb. Over the years we have worked out ways to squeeze the most relevant facts into our databse from both sides.
Everything can´t be used though, and what is going to put where isn´t always easy to decide.
But since we have a tradition since long to figure out the names for each market, it seems very strange to replace names used commercially by manufacturers over the years with engineering codes just because it can be argued that they´re "just" bodystyles.
And moving all those "names" into extra info will not make the site easier to navigate when searching. We already have lots of cars without modelname since it´s not possible to decide more than it´s, for instance, a 1955 Chevrolet from the angle given in the clip.
I believe it´s enough having these left completely without modelname, adding hundreds and hundreds of extra will not improve the site.
I´m not sure I get you right here, but I´m not suggesting that bodystyles will have to be put in the "Model" field in every case as you seems to be implying.
Maybe the word "Model" in itself is part of the problem here since it can refer to either the chassis, the bodystyle or a car line.
But when it comes following "Make" in a database like IMCDb I think it´s mostly understood as a combination resulting in the commercial name of the vehicle.
We can use the 1929 Lincoln above as an example, it could be entered as:
Make: Lincoln
Model: Model L (code referring to the chassis) or Model 164-B (code referring to the bodystyle)
It will not result in much of a commercial name though, and if we take a 1934 Cadillac as example:
Make: Cadillac
Model: Series 355-D (code referring to engine displacement) or Series 20 (code referring to chassis length) or Style 34662 (code referring to the bodytype)
Both these examples would have been a bit hard to digest if you see them from the viewpoint of the customers back then.
Towards customers Lincoln promoted their car as Sport Touring, no reference made to engine or chassis.
Cadillac called their car Cadillac V-8 Series 20 Sedan towards customers. In this case Series 20 is used as a marker for the chassis length 136", but it´s put as secondary information in the material I´ve seen so far. And would fit nicely in the "Extra Info" field of this site.
The style 662 (34 is just a reference to the year) referred to the 7-Passenger version, with dividing glass 663 (called Imperial Sedan), with 5 seats it was 659. If I´m not mistaken all three of them looked the same from the outside, so with a distant filmclip it might be hard to decide exactly which one to use.
If we look over several years how manufacturers promote their vehicles, it´s possible to see patterns of how it´s done.
Manufacturers always have kept close eyes with what´s going on at the competion, and they tend to use designations that are similar. In the early days when the engineers and founders often were the same person, we´re likely to find an engineering code promoted in the sense of modelname. Roughly this is done and over with about 1915, after that we´re more likely find the engine or bodystyle promoted in the sense of modelname. Codes often still appear in publishings after this, but when looking closely at them I think they mostly can be understood as just codes.
The majority will have a reference in some sort to the engine, either the type, horsepower (taxed or real) or in a combinantion with a name describing the excellence of it.
Often, during the following years (approximately 1915-35) when a manufacturer only have one carline in production they use bodystyle in the sense of modelname, but when they come to use several engines in their chassis they usually lift this fact in the promotion.
Dedicated modelnames appear alongside with this practise, Jordan was one of the pioneers in giving their cars names that would be connected only to that make. Most known is the Playboy, they had also the Blue Boy and the Little Tomboy. But as a general use, it does not become common until the second half of the thirties among most manufacturers.
Later in the period the practise of using De Luxe in the sense of modelname becomes common, roughly 1930-50.
What´s most common during these years differs between the manufacturers, it comes and goes and sometimes reappers. They try different strategys, and when production started after WWII we can find all of the above given examples used over time. It differs a bit over the years what´s most common practise, it might be long creative names (common on US-cars), or a simple reference to engine size (common on euro markets) or something looking like codes that´s become popular in later years: Audi A6, Mercedes-Benz A150, Volvo S80, Citroën C4, Cadillac STS or whatever it might be.
Generally we can see similarities of how it´s done between the different automakers. There´s always a tendency to follow the leader.
When looking at a vehicle, there are two general ways to approach it. The engineering side of it, and the commercial.
On the engineering side we find all sorts of codes, used when developing it and later used to keep track of exactly what model we´re talking about. Both internally, in the service departments, and eventual car clubs for the nerds of a specific brand or specific model.
Here everything also follow the calendar year in exactness.
On the other hand we have the commercial side, where names (both make and model) may differ from market to market. Here we also find the practise of modelyears that often differ from the calendar year, sometimes in spectacular way.
Both these ways are correct in their perspective, and have useful information to provide for a site like IMCDb. Over the years we have worked out ways to squeeze the most relevant facts into our databse from both sides.
Everything can´t be used though, and what is going to put where isn´t always easy to decide.
But since we have a tradition since long to figure out the names for each market, it seems very strange to replace names used commercially by manufacturers over the years with engineering codes just because it can be argued that they´re "just" bodystyles.
And moving all those "names" into extra info will not make the site easier to navigate when searching. We already have lots of cars without modelname since it´s not possible to decide more than it´s, for instance, a 1955 Chevrolet from the angle given in the clip.
I believe it´s enough having these left completely without modelname, adding hundreds and hundreds of extra will not improve the site.