Naming conventions » Jagdtiger
Jagdtiger
Published 20/09/2024 @ 17:09:12, By Harold B
On the IMCDB site, the Jagdtiger (German WW2 tank) is listed under three separate manufacturers.
There are three entries for Nibelungenwerk - Panzerjäger Tiger https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Nibelungenwerk_model-Panzerj%C3%A4ger.html
Two for Steyr - Jg.Pz.VI 'Jagdtiger' https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Steyr_model-Jg.html
and one for Henschel - Jg.Pz.VI 'Jagdtiger' https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Henschel_model-Jg.html
The Jagdtiger was designed by Henschel, but all of them were built at Nibelungenwerk, a tank factory. The reason Steyr is involved is because the armored bodies for the tanks were built at Eisenwerke Oberdonau, which someone conflated with Steyr. Those bodies were shipped to Nibelungenwerk for assembly.
I recommend that they all be grouped under Henschel, and the name be simply "Jagdtiger", with "Sd.Kfz.186" as the extra info. "Panzerjäger Tiger" is correct, but almost everyone knows it by the name Jagdtiger, which is also correct.
There are three entries for Nibelungenwerk - Panzerjäger Tiger https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Nibelungenwerk_model-Panzerj%C3%A4ger.html
Two for Steyr - Jg.Pz.VI 'Jagdtiger' https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Steyr_model-Jg.html
and one for Henschel - Jg.Pz.VI 'Jagdtiger' https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Henschel_model-Jg.html
The Jagdtiger was designed by Henschel, but all of them were built at Nibelungenwerk, a tank factory. The reason Steyr is involved is because the armored bodies for the tanks were built at Eisenwerke Oberdonau, which someone conflated with Steyr. Those bodies were shipped to Nibelungenwerk for assembly.
I recommend that they all be grouped under Henschel, and the name be simply "Jagdtiger", with "Sd.Kfz.186" as the extra info. "Panzerjäger Tiger" is correct, but almost everyone knows it by the name Jagdtiger, which is also correct.
Jagdtiger
Published 20/09/2024 @ 20:05:13, By antp
Thanks for the info
On https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_583747-Nibelungenwerk-Panzerj%C3%A4ger-Tiger.html and on https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_549928-Steyr-JgPzVI--Jagdtiger--1944.html mike962 seemed to rather be for the Steyr make, but of course that may be wrong.
I'll ask him to check and see what he has to say about that before renaming.
Latest Edition: 20/09/2024 @ 20:05:34
On https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_583747-Nibelungenwerk-Panzerj%C3%A4ger-Tiger.html and on https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_549928-Steyr-JgPzVI--Jagdtiger--1944.html mike962 seemed to rather be for the Steyr make, but of course that may be wrong.
I'll ask him to check and see what he has to say about that before renaming.
Latest Edition: 20/09/2024 @ 20:05:34
Jagdtiger
Published 21/09/2024 @ 16:56:17, By mike962
^ german wiki gives a clear answer , the actual name is "Jagdpanzer VI Jagdtiger" as extra info Sd.Kfz.186 so maybe all should get that
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdpanzer_VI_Jagdtiger
"Nibelungenwerk" is factory belonging to Steyr-Daimler-Puch AG, the sole 3rd Reich tank factory using assembly line system
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibelungenwerk
we have similar issue with american tanks , they were made by DETROIT ARSENAL factory , which belonged to Chrysler hence all those tanks are listed with Chrysler as maker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Arsenal_(Warren,_Michigan)
Jagtiger was made on two chassis first batches on Porsche chassis the last ones on Henschel chassis , that's the Henschel connection
this are the facts
Latest Edition: 21/09/2024 @ 17:12:25
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdpanzer_VI_Jagdtiger
"Nibelungenwerk" is factory belonging to Steyr-Daimler-Puch AG, the sole 3rd Reich tank factory using assembly line system
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibelungenwerk
we have similar issue with american tanks , they were made by DETROIT ARSENAL factory , which belonged to Chrysler hence all those tanks are listed with Chrysler as maker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Arsenal_(Warren,_Michigan)
Jagtiger was made on two chassis first batches on Porsche chassis the last ones on Henschel chassis , that's the Henschel connection
this are the facts
Latest Edition: 21/09/2024 @ 17:12:25
Jagdtiger
Published 21/09/2024 @ 20:12:00, By antp
So that gives maybe more arguments for Steyr than for Henschel indeed.
Or we could use Steyr-Daimler-Puch that is already used for aother tank: https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Steyr-Daimler-Puch.html
Or we could use Steyr-Daimler-Puch that is already used for aother tank: https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Steyr-Daimler-Puch.html
Jagdtiger
Published 21/09/2024 @ 23:25:16, By mike962
Yes can work
but the problem we have some other military vehicles done as Steyr specially the ADGZ
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_ADGZ
just referred as Steyr ADGZ in all sources but it was same producer " Steyr Daimler Puch "
https://www.flickr.com/photos/panzerdb/7010969603
so IMO easier to just leave it Steyr
Latest Edition: 21/09/2024 @ 23:39:01
but the problem we have some other military vehicles done as Steyr specially the ADGZ
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_ADGZ
just referred as Steyr ADGZ in all sources but it was same producer " Steyr Daimler Puch "
https://www.flickr.com/photos/panzerdb/7010969603
so IMO easier to just leave it Steyr
Latest Edition: 21/09/2024 @ 23:39:01
Jagdtiger
Published 22/09/2024 @ 01:11:48, By Harold B
I said Henschel because that's who designed the tank. I wasn't thinking right, I already knew you list vehicles by the manufacturer and not designer.
Steyr was called Steyr-Daimler-Puch from 1934 onward, so unless you're going to change all of the other Steyr vehicles then I guess putting the Jagdtiger under Steyr is fine. The Kürassier was made by Saurer anyway, not Steyr.
Steyr was called Steyr-Daimler-Puch from 1934 onward, so unless you're going to change all of the other Steyr vehicles then I guess putting the Jagdtiger under Steyr is fine. The Kürassier was made by Saurer anyway, not Steyr.
Jagdtiger
Published 22/09/2024 @ 12:11:17, By antp
Indeed, Wikipedia mentions "The SK-105 was developed by Saurer-Werk (now Steyr-Daimler-Puch)"
I updated them:
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Saurer_model-SK-105+K%C3%BCrassier.html
I've also changed the Jagdpanzer as Steyr:
https://www.imcdb.org/search.php?resultsStyle=asList&sortBy=0&make=Steyr&model=J- g.Pz.VI
Should the origin be Austrian or is German right? (and in the latter case, all should be set as built in Austria?)
Also, should all be Sd.Kfz. 186 or is Ausf. B right for the three that were listed as Nibelungenwerk?
Latest Edition: 22/09/2024 @ 13:35:33
I updated them:
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Saurer_model-SK-105+K%C3%BCrassier.html
I've also changed the Jagdpanzer as Steyr:
https://www.imcdb.org/search.php?resultsStyle=asList&sortBy=0&make=Steyr&model=J- g.Pz.VI
Should the origin be Austrian or is German right? (and in the latter case, all should be set as built in Austria?)
Also, should all be Sd.Kfz. 186 or is Ausf. B right for the three that were listed as Nibelungenwerk?
Latest Edition: 22/09/2024 @ 13:35:33
Jagdtiger
Published 22/09/2024 @ 13:16:57, By mike962
IMO this ones should be listed Origin germany, build in Austria
the factory was situated in Austria too , not just austrian owner
Latest Edition: 22/09/2024 @ 13:17:49
the factory was situated in Austria too , not just austrian owner
Latest Edition: 22/09/2024 @ 13:17:49
Jagdtiger
Published 22/09/2024 @ 23:08:52, By Harold B
All should be Sd.Kfz.186
"Ausf.B" refers to Tiger Ausf.B, the Tiger II tank, which is the chassis the Jagdtiger was based on. There was no such thing as a 'Jagdtiger Ausf.B', so you can leave that out.
"Ausf.B" refers to Tiger Ausf.B, the Tiger II tank, which is the chassis the Jagdtiger was based on. There was no such thing as a 'Jagdtiger Ausf.B', so you can leave that out.
Add Reply